QRZ! Ham Radio 5/QRZ Ham Radio Callsign Database - Volume 5.iso/digests/tcp/940211.txt

Internet Message Format | 1994-11-13 | 39.4 KB

Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 04:30:03 PDT
From: Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group <[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #211
To: tcp-group-digest


TCP-Group Digest            Sat, 24 Sep 94       Volume 94 : Issue  211

Today's Topics:
                 Actually, I *like* Brian's listserv
                            enet anomalie
                      gateway software? (4 msgs)
                           Hubris (3 msgs)
                KA9Q NOS doesn't work with a PI board
                             Mail failure
                       Reading and how to stop
                      TCP-Group Digest V94 #210
                      Virtual machines (3 msgs)
                         what is MAC (5 msgs)

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>.
Subscription requests to <[e-mail]>.
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the TCP-Group Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 10:55 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Russell Nelson)
Subject: Actually, I *like* Brian's listserv
To: [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]

delete tcp-group [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 04:18:25 -0700
From: [e-mail] (kd5lu)
Subject: enet anomalie
To: [e-mail]

Scenario: Jnos box 10.g connected to windows pc via enet card.
Problem : I can connect just fine to jnos from windows.  Problem is,
          after I connect to another ax25 station (via the connect
          command in the mb), each character I type gets sent out over
          the ax25 interface.  The corresponding station does not know
          what to do with all my single character madness.  This raises
          a couple of questions I would appreciate some input on:

          1.  Upon inspecting the trace of the enet interface, I see each
              character I enter on the windows/pc getting transmitted over
              to my jnos box.  Is this normal ?

          2.  If the preceeding question is normal operation, how is
              it controlled where each character will NOT be sent over
              the ax25 interface until I hit return ?

          The windows software is Trumpet Winsock with a current GVC
          packet driver for the enet board.  Any comments and/or
          questions will be greatly appreciated.  Tnx and 73.
          Bill Abernathy kd5lu.ampr.org  -  [e-mail]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Abernathy kd5lu.ampr.org [44.28.0.119] [e-mail]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 08:09:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Hartsfield <[e-mail]>
Subject: gateway software?
To: John Paul Morrison <[e-mail]>

On Thu, 22 Sep 1994, John Paul Morrison wrote:

> What software are people using on their gateways? I'm having terrible
> luck with the stability of KA9Q, Jnos etc. Did you compile your own?
> Do you have a huge patch file you keep around to apply to new versions
> of NOS? I don't care what flavour you're using; if it's stable I wan't
> to try what you're using.
>
> I need a *stable* tcp/ip router and gateway (ip over ip encap) for
> ethernet to 56kbps and 1200bps packet. Just tonight I was using rcp to
> copy 15 megs of a directory tree over the 56kbps link; but then I
> opened an ftp connection to a Sun; when I closed the ftp connection,
> the JNOS router bit the dust (right in the middle of the rcp! arg!).
> Rhetorical question: why can Suns, SGIs, Linux boxes etc. run for
> *months* doing routing (and a million other things), and NOS up times
> are measured in days at best?

Because nos is running on MS-DOS and a Sun, SGI, Lunix, etc are running
real operating systems.  nos tries to make dos do something it wasn't
designed for (multitasking, networking, etc.) and does a good job in the
attempt, but has trouble because of dos.   Your unix machines were
designed for doing multitasking networking and so they do it real well.

Your best bet for a stable tcp/ip is to run Jnos for Linux.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 12:16:17 -0400
From: "Louis A. Mamakos" <[e-mail]>
Subject: gateway software?
To: Brian Hartsfield <[e-mail]>

>
>
> On Thu, 22 Sep 1994, John Paul Morrison wrote:
>
> > What software are people using on their gateways? I'm having terrible
> > luck with the stability of KA9Q, Jnos etc. Did you compile your own?
> > Do you have a huge patch file you keep around to apply to new versions
> > of NOS? I don't care what flavour you're using; if it's stable I wan't
> > to try what you're using.
> >
> > I need a *stable* tcp/ip router and gateway (ip over ip encap) for
> > ethernet to 56kbps and 1200bps packet. Just tonight I was using rcp to
> > copy 15 megs of a directory tree over the 56kbps link; but then I
> > opened an ftp connection to a Sun; when I closed the ftp connection,
> > the JNOS router bit the dust (right in the middle of the rcp! arg!).
> > Rhetorical question: why can Suns, SGIs, Linux boxes etc. run for
> > *months* doing routing (and a million other things), and NOS up times
> > are measured in days at best?
>
> Because nos is running on MS-DOS and a Sun, SGI, Lunix, etc are running
> real operating systems.  nos tries to make dos do something it wasn't
> designed for (multitasking, networking, etc.) and does a good job in the
> attempt, but has trouble because of dos.   Your unix machines were
> designed for doing multitasking networking and so they do it real well.
>
> Your best bet for a stable tcp/ip is to run Jnos for Linux.

Or you could try to run Just Plain Phil Karn NOS, and not feature-fied
various which seem to be much less stable.  Of course, if you don't need
to do any AX.25 nonsense, then a UN*X-like OS on the PC would give
you many more options.

louie
wa3ymh

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 14:05:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Ron Atkinson)
Subject: gateway software?
To: [e-mail] (John Paul Morrison)

> What software are people using on their gateways? I'm having terrible
> luck with the stability of KA9Q, Jnos etc. Did you compile your own?
> Do you have a huge patch file you keep around to apply to new versions
> of NOS? I don't care what flavour you're using; if it's stable I wan't
> to try what you're using.

Most people are running JNOS as a gateway, but reliability is very low
when a large amount of data is passing through it, especially continuously
at a high rate of speed.  Pretty odd that I've noticed the same thing
as you have with UDP packets.  I can run telnets, ftp's, etc... through
them, but many times when I run domain queries or try a talk program through
a NOS system it dies.

If you really want to run JNOS and get some reliability try JNOS/Linux. I've
had much better luck with this than any DOS version. It too can do goofy
things though.  Is there a reason why you can't just run the AX.25 code in
the kernel for Linux and run the IPIP daemon on that?  The IPIP daemon does
work just fine, I've run it on 2 machines here and a couple other folks have
run it too.  Do you have special hardware that no code exists for Linux yet
that causes you to have to run a DOS machine?  Just curious...

If you do run JNOS/Linux you can set up a SLIP link via a pty to talk to the
Linux machine and just route via that. Plus you can do your encap routing
through that if you want to.   If you need to run DOS though I'd just stick
with Phil's base code.  Also when running data at a high rate of speed through
it turn off your trace on all your ports. Leaving a trace on will kill a NOS
system pretty quickly.

--

Ron N8FOW

AMPRnet  : [e-mail]
Internet : [e-mail]
           [e-mail]

#include <std_disclaimer.h>
/* all views and opinions expressed above are my own. */

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 12:01:06 -0800 (PDT)
From: [e-mail] (John Paul Morrison)
Subject: gateway software?
To: [e-mail] (Ron Atkinson)

>
> > What software are people using on their gateways? I'm having terrible
> > luck with the stability of KA9Q, Jnos etc. Did you compile your own?
> > Do you have a huge patch file you keep around to apply to new versions
> > of NOS? I don't care what flavour you're using; if it's stable I wan't
> > to try what you're using.
>
> Most people are running JNOS as a gateway, but reliability is very low
> when a large amount of data is passing through it, especially continuously
> at a high rate of speed.  Pretty odd that I've noticed the same thing
> as you have with UDP packets.  I can run telnets, ftp's, etc... through
> them, but many times when I run domain queries or try a talk program through
> a NOS system it dies.

Apparently there's a patch for this, but I haven't seen it.
>
> If you really want to run JNOS and get some reliability try JNOS/Linux. I've
> had much better luck with this than any DOS version. It too can do goofy
> things though.  Is there a reason why you can't just run the AX.25 code in
> the kernel for Linux and run the IPIP daemon on that?  The IPIP daemon does
> work just fine, I've run it on 2 machines here and a couple other folks have
> run it too.  Do you have special hardware that no code exists for Linux yet
> that causes you to have to run a DOS machine?  Just curious...

I already run Linux on one end of the 56k link (I don't need IPIP
encap on that side); and I have few problems with tcp/ip routing.
I've seen problems with ax.25 sockets in Linux, but I don't care,
because the system we have is all tcp/ip.

Do you have IPIP running under Linux? Maybe I'll have to look at this
again.  I compiled IPIP for Linux with some kludges, but I'm not sure
if it was done properly. Not sure about the routes with IPIP either.
Ideally, IPIP would go into the kernel, but I'm having trouble bending
my mind around the various network kernel levels. It *looks* easy
enough to do, but I'm not sure where to start. So do you have patches
for IPIP and Linux?


>
> If you do run JNOS/Linux you can set up a SLIP link via a pty to talk to the
> Linux machine and just route via that. Plus you can do your encap routing
> through that if you want to.   If you need to run DOS though I'd just stick
> with Phil's base code.  Also when running data at a high rate of speed through
> it turn off your trace on all your ports. Leaving a trace on will kill a NOS
> system pretty quickly.

>
> --
>
> Ron N8FOW
>
> AMPRnet  : [e-mail]
> Internet : [e-mail]
>            [e-mail]
>

thanks

> #include <std_disclaimer.h>
> /* all views and opinions expressed above are my own. */
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
BogoMIPS Research Labs  --  bogosity research & simulation  --  VE7JPM  --
[e-mail] [e-mail] [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 06:38:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: Gerald J Creager <[e-mail]>
Subject: Hubris
To: [e-mail] (Steve Sampson)

Steve Sampson sez:
>
>
> > Hubris
>
> Isn't that what the fags at ucsd smear their butt with?

Comments like this are completely uncalled for on a public listserv response.


> Well you should pat yourself on the back on the fine and wonderful
> list server you "wrote".  I suspect it's probably the only thing you
> ever finished...

Steve, if you're dissatisfied with the list, the author, or the folks who are
on the list, why don't you follow your own advice and just unsubscribe?  Or,
would you prefer someone do it for you?

Gerry

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 12:54:08 +0200 (BST)
From: [e-mail] (Alan Cox)
Subject: Hubris
To: [e-mail] (Steve Sampson)

> > Hubris
> Isn't that what the fags at ucsd smear their butt with?
>
> Well you should pat yourself on the back on the fine and wonderful
> list server you "wrote".  I suspect it's probably the only thing you
> ever finished...

I can only assume these are faking postings. Just in case I've taken the
trouble to forward them to USAF with a request they are looked into

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 18:14:44 +0100
From: "Brian A. Lantz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Hubris
To: Steve Sampson <[e-mail]>

On Fri, 23 Sep 1994, Steve Sampson wrote:

> > Hubris
>
> Isn't that what the fags at ucsd smear their butt with?
>
> Well you should pat yourself on the back on the fine and wonderful
> list server you "wrote".  I suspect it's probably the only thing you
> ever finished...
>
> --
> Steve


I have seen unacceptable and unnecessary messages on this list before. I
have seen people flamed for helping and flamed for being just born. I
have seen people flame others because they  didn't GIVE their time and
energy faster and in the way that the flamer thought it should be done.

But you know, this message of sincere ingratitude only goes to show that
when you think you have seen it all, you haven't!

Steve, Buddy, If you don't like Brian and his tcp-group list, DON'T USE
IT! It's HIS party and he'll cry if he wants to. You, as is with the rest
of us, have little or no say.

DON'T show your south side while facing north and lead Brian to believe
that the members of this group support such uncalled-for ravings.


BRIAN:

May of us in the Amateur Community very much appreciate the MANY things
you have FINISHED that have helped make Amateur Radio TCP what it is
today. Don't let random, ill conceived flames sway you.


-----------------------------------------------------------
Brian A. Lantz/KO4KS                 [e-mail]

REAL PORTION of Microsoft Windows code:
    while (memory_available)    {
        eat_major_portion_of_memory (no_real_reason);
        if (feel_like_it)
            make_user_THINK (this_is_an_OS);
        gates_bank_balance++;
    }

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 20:11:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: [e-mail] (Dennis Rosenauer)
Subject: KA9Q NOS doesn't work with a PI board
To: [e-mail]

I have been attempting to get the KA9Q NOS running with a PI board.  I have
found that JNOS and others (PA0GRI 1229M etc.) crash with high volumes
of IP (UDP) traffic.  It was suggested by others on this group that
Phil's KA9Q NOS was better in this regard.

I obtained the sources from ftp.ucsd.edu and after a little messing around
with RCS (I set it all up on one of my UNIX boxes to unbundle it properly)
and adding a few patches from WA7IPX it compiled and seemed to run.

However, I cannot get the PI board interface to work at all.  The version
of NOS I got is "930622 (KA9Q)".  Does anyone have any patches to make
the PI board work?  The ethernet interface via a packet driver works fine.
I have not tried using the PI board packet driver with KA9Q recently but
it did not seem to work when I tested it earlier this year.

Suggestions?

Thanks, Dennis.

--
Dennis Rosenauer VE7BPE                  [e-mail]
MPR Teltech Ltd.
Wireless Transmission Products           "For every vision there is an
Burnaby, B. C.                            equal and opposite revision"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 12:15:00 edt
From: Adminstrator <[e-mail]>
Subject: Mail failure
To: dayhub!3445a!ucsd.edu![e-mail]


User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses:
  GPPGDAYTON/GPPGPOST/lshannon

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From: Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group <[e-mail]>
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Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #210
To: [e-mail]

TCP-Group Digest            Fri, 23 Sep 94       Volume 94 : Issue  210

Today's Topics:
                          gateway software?
                    How to Join or Leave (2 msgs)
                                Hubris
                             Mail failure
                       TCP retry time problem?
                   wn940921 : where can I find it?

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>.
Subscription requests to <[e-mail]>.
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the TCP-Group Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 21:56:54 -0800 (PDT)
From: [e-mail] (John Paul Morrison)
Subject: gateway software?
To: [e-mail], [e-mail]

What software are people using on their gateways? I'm having terrible
luck with the stability of KA9Q, Jnos etc. Did you compile your own?
Do you have a huge patch file you keep around to apply to new versions
of NOS? I don't care what flavour you're using; if it's stable I wan't
to try what you're using.

I need a *stable* tcp/ip router and gateway (ip over ip encap) for
ethernet to 56kbps and 1200bps packet. Just tonight I was using rcp to
copy 15 megs of a directory tree over the 56kbps link; but then I
opened an ftp connection to a Sun; when I closed the ftp connection,
the JNOS router bit the dust (right in the middle of the rcp! arg!).
Rhetorical question: why can Suns, SGIs, Linux boxes etc. run for
*months* doing routing (and a million other things), and NOS up times
are measured in days at best?


thanks


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
BogoMIPS Research Labs  --  bogosity research & simulation  --  VE7JPM  --
[e-mail] [e-mail] [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 15:33:57 -0500 (CDT)
From: [e-mail] (Steve Sampson)
Subject: How to Join or Leave
To: [e-mail]

One of the most irritating problems of a listserver is that people don't
remember how they got in, or the instructions for getting out.  For this
particular group, you would probably check the masthead of the tcp-group
digest. Of course that won't help, because the masthead is wrong - always
has been.  The simple fact is that most listservers use the user name of

 listserv

Those that don't are non-standard, and should probably be avoided if you
have a poor memory.

The tcp-group is archived on the ucsd.edu machine.  So the full address is

 [e-mail]

Now here's the fun part. Just send the word

 help

In the message.  Don't include your damned 12 line signature block with
stupid graphics either.

If a member see's that another member is having trouple they can also
unsubscribe them.

 delete-all [e-mail]

--
Steve

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 20:21:22 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Brian Kantor)
Subject: How to Join or Leave
To: [e-mail], [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> you write:
>particular group, you would probably check the masthead of the tcp-group
>digest. Of course that won't help, because the masthead is wrong - always
>has been.

Steve is so sure of himself.  Unfortunately, he's wrong.  The masthead
of the tcp-digest clearly states to send mail to [e-mail],
and by golly, that works for me!

But then, Steve knows better than I do.  Hey, I just wrote the software,
the masthead, and run the system.

So do it his way.  Or as the instructions say.  Your choice.

Gosh, I wish >I< were young enough to know everything.  Hubris, I think
they call it.
 - Brian

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 04:32:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: [e-mail] (Steve Sampson)
Subject: Hubris
To: [e-mail]

> Hubris

Isn't that what the fags at ucsd smear their butt with?

Well you should pat yourself on the back on the fine and wonderful
list server you "wrote".  I suspect it's probably the only thing you
ever finished...

--
Steve

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 13:47:00 edt
From: Adminstrator <[e-mail]>
Subject: Mail failure
To: dayhub!3445a!ucsd.edu![e-mail]



User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses:
  GPPGDAYTON/GPPGPOST/lshannon


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TCP-Group Digest            Thu, 22 Sep 94       Volume 94 : Issue  209

Today's Topics:
                             Mail failure
                               UNSCRIBE
                      wn940921 memory and things

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>.
Subscription requests to <[e-mail]>.
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the TCP-Group Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 13:34:00 edt
From: Adminstrator <[e-mail]>
Subject: Mail failure
To: dayhub!3445a!ucsd.edu![e-mail]



User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses:
  GPPGDAYTON/GPPGPOST/lshannon


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 21:11:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Admin <uunet!k4ngc!root>
Subject: UNSCRIBE
To: uunet!aquin!men2a!uunet.uu.net!ucsd!tcp-group

UNSCRIBE

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 14:54:51 EST
From: BARRY TITMARSH <[e-mail]>
Subject: wn940921 memory and things
To: TCP-GROUP <[e-mail]>, wnos-group <[e-mail]>

Just to confirm unless informed otherwise. the memory problem
on this version of wnos is cleared.
and the latest uploaded .exe's do contain netrom.
however I compiled both in 286 mode on the compiler.
Barry.

------------------------------

End of TCP-Group Digest V94 #209
******************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 07:27:00 -0000
From: [e-mail] (Mike Bilow)
Subject: TCP retry time problem?
To: [e-mail]

[Replying originally to a post addressed to the [e-mail]
list]

On 94 Sep 20 at 10:52, Dr. Gareth D. Blower <[e-mail]>
wrote:

 DGDB> rto = backoff(tcb) * (4 * tcb->mdev + tcb->srtt);

 DGDB> Where does that factor of 4 get plucked from? It means
 DGDB> that when we calculate the retry time, we give the mean
 DGDB> deviation of the RTT 4 times the weight of the RTT itself.
* * *
 DGDB> If we do a PING to a particular station, we will see
 DGDB> quite a small mean deviation, but that's because we send
 DGDB> one packet at time. When we are doing an FTP, we may send,
 DGDB> all in one go, any number of packets, depending on the
 DGDB> negotiated window size. If we send one packet, and then
 DGDB> two contiguous packets, and then three contiguous packets,
 DGDB> the RTT will vary. For one packet, it will be
 DGDB> approximately RTT. If two packets are sent contiguously,
 DGDB> the RTT for the first packet will be approximately 1.5
 DGDB> RTT. If three packets are sent contiguously, the RTT for
 DGDB> the first packet will be approximately 2 RTT

What you say has quite a lot of validity, but I think the reasoning was most
likely to concoct a quick and dirty mechanism to prevent the retry timer from
expiring on one packet while others are still being sent.  This is an inherent
problem on a half-duplex channel, since the RTT can only be measured on a
packet-by-packet basis.  It might be reasonable to extend Karn's Algorithm to
say that we will only use an RTT measurement taken from an acknowledgement of
the last transmitted frame.  If we did this, then we would never get any RTT
measurements unless we drop into stop-and-wait mode somehow, either through
the
use of the congestion window or some other cause.  You might ask Phil Karn
about this directly, although I believe that he has traditionally expressed
objection to any linear backoff implementation as opposed to exponential
backoff.

-- Mike


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 11:19:52 utc
From: [e-mail]
Subject: wn940921 : where can I find it?
To: [e-mail]

Hello all,
where can I find wn940921 sources other than ucsd.edu?

The problemi is that here the connectionf with ftp.ucsd.edu is slow,
so if I can connect another host maybe i can download it easily.

Best 73

Mike

------------------------------

End of TCP-Group Digest V94 #210
******************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 13:22:24 -0600 (MDT)
From: Klarsen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Reading and how to stop
To: TCP digest <[e-mail]>

    I was amuased at myself. I read Steve's thing about getting
information on this server and said yes the masthead has been wrong for
years! Then I saw Brian's note and re-looked at the masthead.

    There it IS! In clear easy to read form, how to send this message
and how to send things to the server. I tried it and it works. But I
think one added thing might help end so many messages to "cancel my
subscription". As Steve said you can send a 1 liner one word that will
get you lots of information. Just use help.

    But to get this across might be hard. The person wanting help
needs to know that the 'help' must be in the message, not the title and
with some servers it needs to not be the first line.

    I wonder how hard it would be to have the server answer a address
like [e-mail] or [e-mail] send the help file? Then you
could put that in the masthead as " for help use [e-mail]" and the
user winds up with your excellent help file.

    Just another hair-brain idea...

-karl

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 18:21:00 PDT
From: "Jeffrey D. Angus" <[e-mail]>
Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #210
To: [e-mail]

On Fri, 23 Sep 94 04:30:03 PDT, "Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>                                 Hubris
>
> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 04:32:32 -0500 (CDT)
> From: [e-mail] (Steve Sampson)
> Subject: Hubris
> To: [e-mail]
>
> > Hubris
>

[ rest deleted.... ]

Congratulations Steve. I've managed to maintain the title of net.asshole for
quite sometime, but this time you've beat me fair and square.

I humbly surrender my title.

73 es GE from the vanquished

--
 Amateur: WA6FWI@WA6FWI.#SOCA.CA.USA.NOAM | "You have a flair for adding
Internet: [e-mail]        |  a fanciful dimension to any
 US Mail: PO Box 4425 Carson, CA 90749    |  story."
   Phone: [phone]                |           Peking Noodle Co.

Hate "Green Card Lottery"? Want to help curb ignorant crossposting on Usenet?
E-mail [e-mail] for more information, or read news.groups.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 09:50:22 MDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Virtual machines
To: [e-mail]

Working on the assumption that there are no stupid questions, I
proceed with the following:

I think that most of us agree that a good configuration for radio
access is to have a DOS machine running NOS actually attached to the
rig, acting as an IP switch to a box running *NIX or Windows or
what-have-you on which the applications run.

Now, suppose that this second machine is running Windows. Is there
some way in which the DOS switch running NOS cannot be replaced by a
virtual DOS machine running NOS within the Windows session?

Obviously (I think) if one has enough COM ports, one could route the
IP from a Windows application attached to (say) Winsock out one
port, into another post to which is attached a Windows DOS box running
NOS, which can then ship the final radio-ready IP out a third port.
But is there not some way to get rid of those first two ports through
some virtualising mechanism so that the IP from Winsock (or whatever)
goes into the NOS session without physically having to traverse
wires?

I apologise if this makes the cognoscenti shake their heads in
wonderment at my simplicity....

Doc


-------------------------------------------------------
Doc Evans NQ0I / G4AMJ : [e-mail]
                         [e-mail]
-------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 17:41:59 +0200 (BST)
From: [e-mail] (Alan Cox)
Subject: Virtual machines
To: [e-mail]

> I think that most of us agree that a good configuration for radio
> access is to have a DOS machine running NOS actually attached to the
> rig, acting as an IP switch to a box running *NIX or Windows or
> what-have-you on which the applications run.

Running JNOS under Linux is more than as good. Once the AX.25 for Linux
and *BSD is finished and done the DOS boxes can go into the bits pile

> IP from a Windows application attached to (say) Winsock out one
> port, into another post to which is attached a Windows DOS box running
> NOS, which can then ship the final radio-ready IP out a third port.
> But is there not some way to get rid of those first two ports through
> some virtualising mechanism so that the IP from Winsock (or whatever)
> goes into the NOS session without physically having to traverse

In theory it is doable (I've seen that kind of hackery work) but the right
way of doing it is to get a winsock or DOS tcp stack that can be taught
do to IP over AX.25 UI frames (which isn't a complex protocol problem).
Hacking WATTCP to do this took me an afternoon but then I found wattcp's
tcp timers were just far too simple to cope with the amateur radio network.

Alan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 00:28:35 UTC
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Virtual machines
To: [e-mail]

If you want to run Winsock apps over radio, and you don't need
multiple radio ports, I've found that K8LT's KISS packet driver
works quite well with Trumpet Winsock.

The timers are acceptable, with an initial RTT of 5 seconds and
exponential backoff.  The DNS code is a bit of a problem, since
it re-tries domain lookups at fixed 5 second intervals -- so
it's best to have a DNS close by :-)   It even works fairly
well at 1200bps.

This approach should also work with the Ottawa PI card, since
there is a packet driver for it in the Crynwr collection.

The KISS driver is available at ftp.ucsd.edu, in /hamradio/packet
/tcpip/incoming/ethrax25.zip  Source is included.

73, Mark.

[e-mail]
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 14:34:12 EST
From: BARRY TITMARSH <[e-mail]>
Subject: what is MAC
To: TCP-GROUP <[e-mail]>

Hi all.
I have a simple Question, What is MAC
I know its hardware address remap to Ip address.
But What does M.A C mean
Thanks. Barry

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 10:27:47
From: [e-mail]
Subject: what is MAC
To: "BARRY TITMARSH" <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]

Media Access Control (its an NDIS term)
NDIS has 3 components,
1) MAC - this is the hardware drivers, written to a common interface spec
(to interface with protocol stack).
2) Protocol stack, this is the logic of whats going on, irrespective of
hardware.
3) Protocol Manager, this piece couples a protocol stack with whatever
MAC(s) are available. This is generally done thru a "bind" process.

You may want to get ahold of the NDIS 3.0 spec from either 3com or uSoft.



-Walt

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 10:56 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Russell Nelson)
Subject: what is MAC
To: [e-mail]

   Date:         Fri, 23 Sep 94 14:34:12 EST
   From: BARRY TITMARSH <[e-mail]>

   Hi all.
   I have a simple Question, What is MAC
   I know its hardware address remap to Ip address.
   But What does M.A C mean

Media Access Controller.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 12:39:26 -0400
From: "Louis A. Mamakos" <[e-mail]>
Subject: what is MAC
To: [e-mail]

> Media Access Control (its an NDIS term)

Uh, I'm pretty sure that MAC predates NDIS by quite a bit.

I believe the term was probably first used in the IEEE 802 specs; I
just checked my DEC/Intel/Xerox Ethernet Version 1.0 spec (Sept 30,
1980), and they don't actually use that term.  I

louie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 17:04:32 +0000 (GMT)
From: Paul L Taylor <[e-mail]>
Subject: what is MAC
To: [e-mail]

Hello Barry,

   Its Medium Access Control, I think its reasonably self-explanatory but it
is covered well in the usual reference material Like Tanenbaum's Computer
Networks,or Black's various tomes,or even IEEE 802 standards.But here is a
little discourse on MAC :-)

  In the IEEE 802 committee's reference tomes they split the data link layer
(OSI-RM ) into 2 sub-layers the Medium Access Control and the Logical Link
Control.
   Where for instance 802.3 (ethernet thick or thin) defines CSMA/CD Carrier
Sense Multiple Access/Collision Detect method of MAC. The token bus method of
MAC is the 802.4 standard,and the token ring method is 802.5 standard.
802.2 is the Logical Link Control standard.

MAC itself is split into 6 sub-layers: Transmit Data Encapsulation,
Transmit Media Access Management,Receive Data Decapsulation,Receive Media
Access Management,Data Encoding or Decoding and Channel Access.

Further study of the above references or any good Data Networking reference
should help you further.

73 Paul
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Telephone : [phone] (1000-1900 GMT), [phone] (2030-0000)
Fax       : [phone]
Full Name : Paul L Taylor
Snail Mail: ATD Systems Analyst/Designer,The Met Office,Experimental Site,
            Beaufort Park,Easthamsted,Wokingham,Berks..RG11 3DN,UK
InterNet  : [e-mail] (please use THIS address NOT any other
                                        internally appended address)
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 10:16:37 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Tom Robertson)
To: [e-mail]

unsubscribe

------------------------------

End of TCP-Group Digest V94 #211
******************************